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Meaning you think they are higher or lower than 4th? I'm not sure what you mean. There's ChiO and KD competing for the same girls - we have the most involvement and consistently have high GPA's and extensive campus involvement. Most people would still put DG third, though they're not the most popular across the Greek system, in general. And that does count for something. But, then when you come down to 4th it's really a toss up. Many would argue that ZTA is ahead of PhiMu or certainly equal. A lot of people just like ZTA better than PhiMu. The missing piece for ZTA is grades. They've improved by leaps and bounds over the past three years, but they have to get their GPA up for people to begin thinking of them as a top group.