old row versus new row
by: Roll Tide
Old Row versus New Row - why extinguish between the two and why is this important? The way I see it is Old Row was established on campus first, thus the need to say, “I was here first and you will follow my lead”. The thing about Old Row is there are lifelong traditions that will never be broken as there are many people who have lived the life of Old Row, and Old Row alumni will continue to support their house and traditions. They will recruit those that will fit this bill of tradition. This is a university in the State of Alabama so, of course, Alabama students are important to this tradition versus someone who has no relationship to this university whatsoever.
Old Row wants to be perceived as a “status symbol” and this is important to Old Row. Old Row usually comes from old money and the life of status. They have the need to keep up with the Joneses. To be anything other than Old Row is a disgrace. So with that mentality, Old Row is inept to put New Row beneath them.
Just look at how many sororities have been on campus for years and years and they are still considered New Row? What’s up with that? Will they ever be considered “Old Row”? No, not as long as Old Row has anything to do with it. Then you have the newer sororities that have only been on campus a few years and they are considered “bottom tier” or completely worthless. Will they every move up in the ranks? No, not as long as Old Row has anything to do with it. It is simply holding on to and valuing tradition and there is nothing wrong with that. The problem, as I see it, is keeping the tradition is more important than the people themselves. Fraternity hazing and The Machine come to mind, neither which place emphasis on the value of people as individuals.
New Row, the leftovers according to Old Row, obviously encompasses everyone else in the Greek system. Old Row doesn’t have a choice but to accept New Row as part of the Greek system because, after all, they are part of the Greek system. However, Old Row will still draw a line in the sand when the need arises for whatever reason.
When I think of New Row I think of greater freedom. They have greater diversity among their members and are more accepting of new ideas versus caught up in tradition. Thus, the differences between individuals are valued.
The University continues to increase the student body size. They continue to recruit high caliber, high performing students, some which can only be found outside of the state of Alabama. They continue to want the best and the brightest and continue to put their mark on the college map. With that comes an increased interest in the Greek system. And, if the current Greek system cannot accommodate the current numbers then it is inevitable that new organizations will arrive on campus. Some of these new organizations are very strong nationally and have the means to start a new chapter and the stamina to make sure it succeeds. They, too, are competing in the recruitment process but probably for very different reasons than Old Row.
#1 by: You made a some good
points. One that I find interesting is that fact that a lot of the new row is now older than old row was when the concept of old row was established, and yet by the talk on here you'd think they were founded yesterday. As if hundred-year-old new row houses were entirely bereft or tradition, while houses 30-40 years older have an infinite well of tradition.
Comment#2 by: true
What's really sad is that many of the old row sororities are ones that struggle everywhere but here and maybe one or two other southern universities. Girls from out of state are happy to get new row or even non-machine houses because those houses are excellent nationally. To me it's just another way that we're kinda backward here. I mean that in a kind, "bless our hearts" way.
#3 by: But
That is why you are seeing new row getting better and better.... And houses like AGD KD and now DDD if they aren't careful getting worse. I think in a few years as Alabama tries to expand its out of state enrollment, for so soroities at least, old row and new row will reverse. Old row will always be old row ( and possibly in some people's minds " better" but we are already seeing the trend of out of state not caring so much
by: OOSJul 14, 2013 5:25:23 PM
OOS should help the "newer" houses like Theta and Gamma Phi since both of them are very strong outside of Alabama.
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by: ^Jul 14, 2013 6:03:18 PM
Pi Phi, Zeta, Theta, DG, Alpha Phi and Gamma Phi should all be helped a lot, especially Pi Phi and Theta who are really popular in places like Texas.
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by: re: HmmmApr 4, 2014 12:37:11 PM
by: um...May 4, 2016 3:39:43 PM
by: ^May 5, 2016 1:10:11 PM
by: heyMay 5, 2016 10:43:00 PM
This thread was at the top of the first page. I just read it and commented about the bad grammar. I didn't even notice when it was posted, but even so, my comment stands. You should actually be asking why someone would go back and find an old comment to bump it to the top. I would venture to say it's because it's still a valid point. Right?
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#4 by: Roll Tide
Out of state girls like new row because they feel more welcomed and are comfortable. I would say some are from very metropolitan areas and are open minded and progressive, unlike Alabama. I love Alabama, but there is nothing progressive about it. Birmingham and Mobile is about as progressive as it gets, and that is not saying much. And while the university is a good school, it is still a state school. It isn't the Ivy league.
I do agree that the OOS students have the power to make change due to numbers alone within the greek system, but most just want to have fun and enjoy their college years and accept it for what it is.
It can't help but work itself out.
by: ActuallyJul 14, 2013 4:52:14 PM
Some state universities like Cal system schools, UNC, UVA, UT, UGA, UF, Texas A&M etc. are all very well ranked (inter)nationally, including many ranked above some Ivy League schools. State school doesn't automatically make big private universities better. Bama is a good school academically, but a step below those ones.
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by: RollTMay 15, 2016 6:51:09 AM
by: AuntCMay 16, 2016 1:02:55 AM
#5 by: Like it or not
Like it or not Tri Delt, XO, DG, ZTA are nationally strongest. As more girls from "the north, east, Midwest, west come to Alabama due to its generous scholarships, new row will continue to expand with quality girls. That is why ZTA is doing so well and why DG started so strong. Phi Mu at Alabama is the only one that has changed with the times, which is why they are still so strong with OOS. KKG, KD, XO, DDD, have not welcomed out of state girls so they are stuck with just Alabama girls. Fraternities like hanging out with new row much more. No one will dispute that
by: Top 6Jul 14, 2013 10:03:14 PM
nationally are generally considered to be Pi Phi, Kappa, Theta (these 3 are really strong/present at most top academic universities, Kappa definitely seems to have the best Southern presence of the 3 though), DDD, XO (these two are very good nationally, and like Kappa are also Southern powerhouses) and DG (weaker than the other 5 in the South aside from Mississippi, but very strong in the Western US). ZTA is good, but I'd put them a little behind those 6, they are very regional to the South, and while they are stronger than KD and Phi Mu outside the South, they aren't as strong as the other big Southern powers like XO, KKG and DDD in the rest of the country. I'd put Zeta more along the lines of AXO, Alpha Phi, GPhi and ADPi nationally, and I'd say they're kind of like ADPi in that they are mostly a Southern power who are semi-successful elsewhere..
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by: ??Jul 14, 2013 10:38:15 PM
Zeta and DG are NOT strong nationally. They may be strong some places, but even at UT where Zeta is "Big Six" supposedly, they're really ranked like 8 or 9. XO and DDD are good most places. Theta, Kappa, and Pi Phi are too. A Phi and Gamma Phi are good most places, but stronger in the upper midwest, east, Pac 12, Big 12. Not strong at all in SEC. AGD, ADPi, AOII, AXO, PM, and DZ are top houses in very few places.
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by: Truth hurtsJul 29, 2013 6:52:25 PM
To "??", I highly encourage you to refer to the website below.
thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/08/05/college-rankings-20 12-top-sororities.html
Numbers don't lie. The Zetas and DGs are massive national powerhouses and to say otherwise would be quite ignorant of you. If you sincerely believe that they are not then, for your own sake, don't tell anyone or else you'll look real silly.
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by: SIgma NuMay 3, 2016 11:41:24 PM
#6 by: Misinformed
You poor thing, you are so misinformed. Please do some research before you troll and post incorrect information. XO, DDD, DG, ZTA, KKG, ARE the nationl powerhouses. No one can dispute... Honey, very few OOS students will remain in Alabama after graduation. New row with exception of XO and DDD is the ONLY way to go for networking after graduation.
by: OMGJul 15, 2013 5:42:29 AM
Y'all need to dial up to the internets and look at Zeta and DG outside of your little towns and see that they are not well regarded anywhere other than in the south. I not only have some personal experience with them but I just looked at a sampling from around the country. You can say whatever you want to, but Zeta and DG are lower tier almost everywhere else. Between the two of you, ?? has a much better grasp of national greek life than you do!
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by: Not sure aboutJul 15, 2013 8:40:30 AM
that
DG & Zeta is good at some important states for greek life nationally, Florida, California, Arizona, Texas.
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by: @OMGJul 15, 2013 11:14:38 AM
I have looked around, and I can tell you you're the one who's confused. DG is very strong in the Western US , Midwest and Mississippi off the top of my head, Zeta is strong all over the South and tend to be middle tier elsewhere. This wasn't from sampling my straw man, fictional, small town, it was from looking at Greek life at a lot of schools. I understand your sampling was based on your small town in Alabama, but do some research before you keep regurgitating inaccurate information.
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by: @OMGJul 15, 2013 11:18:45 AM
Based on your very poor knowledge of national Greek life we know less about it than ??. Based on actual research, the fact that you in accurately say that someone posting inaccurate information knows more doesn't make you correct. I suggest you fire up your Internet and take your own advice..
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by: @OMGJul 15, 2013 11:20:23 AM
by: DGJul 15, 2013 2:24:52 PM
Dear DG,
This seems like an excessive number of comments saying what a strong house you are nationally. I randomly looked at schools from around the USA and most often found DG in the middle to lower tiers. I only found one 3-tier school where DG was at the end of the top tier. I'm going to call you out on this and say you're self-promoting.
Love,
Alabama Panhellenic
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by: ^Jul 15, 2013 3:27:36 PM
If it makes you feel better. I wrote a couple of the comments that included DG, and I'm not one. You can wish all day that it was just DG self-promoting. You could do a poor regional sampling of schools to confirm what you want to believe, you can pretend everyone who knows anything about national Greek life is a DG, but it's just wishful thinking on your part.
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by: nationalJul 15, 2013 10:20:32 PM
ZTA has some amazing chapters all around the country, it's not really tops in any specific places.
DG tends to be solidly middle tier, but in California they're generally a top house.
But what I think makes both sororities special is that I have friends in both chapters here and at other schools who say that the national network even within girls still in college is amazing. Like they all want to help each other out and talk to each other no matter what tier they may be at each separate school. THAT's why you should join a sorority. I know a girl in another chapter who found out that a girl she worked with was also in her sorority but refused to acknowledge that because she thought she was better than that girl even though they shared the same letters, and to me that's just sad.
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by: The Jul 15, 2013 1:37:48 AM
by: HAJul 15, 2013 2:41:20 PM
by: @^Jul 15, 2013 6:19:35 PM
by: 8Jul 16, 2013 4:51:32 PM
On the other hand, old row vs new row is very important for fraternities. Because the old row fraternities stand high above the new row fraternities
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#9 by: Fraternity
Besides zeta and pi phi, I dont think anyone really gives a rats ass about new row sororities. DG, Aopi, adpi and all those "great" sororities yall are mentioning are definitely all being posted by yourselves.
and conversely no one really cares about alpha gam or alpha chi either
by: PatheticJul 16, 2013 7:26:50 AM
Bless your heart. Is that as good as you've got? DG is good but not top at those schools.
USC --Kappa, Theta, DG
UCLA -- Kappa, Alpha Phi, DG
UF -- Zeta, ADPi, KD, DG
So please. Stop flooding this board with how great you are. You are at most ok at some schools. Not top anywhere I could find. So stop trying to convince people on here -- convince them in person by being gracious and classy -- not abrasive and thrusting yourself in people's faces.
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by: DGJul 16, 2013 6:31:13 PM
Top tier is different than top at a school. The point she's making is that DG is on here saying they're the top house when they're not top anywhere. I'm tired of it too.
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by: DGJul 17, 2013 11:34:43 AM
by: DGMay 5, 2016 10:40:02 PM
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by: HmmJul 14, 2013 4:45:55 PM
DDD is actually pretty strong in most regions of th US though, even though they're strongest in the South, so expanding OOS enrollment shouldn't hurt them. Phi Mu and KD might be hurt if non-Southern enrollment gets really high, but both are strong throughout the South. AGD is probably already being effected partially because AGD is mostly just strong in Alabama in the South, and then randomly elsewhere. DDD, XO, KKG and AXO will probably be either helped or at least unaffected by increased OOS, as all four are pretty big nationally. KD and Phi Mu will only be significantly effected if enrollment from outside the South gets significantly effected. AGD is probably at the biggest disadvantage because their strong chapters are randomly, not regionally, distributed. Most of new row could however (and already has) benefitted from OOS membership.
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