only so many people get bids

How many went through recruitment? What was quota?

100% right. It's not supportive in the least. It's exclusive and not inclusive. Girls who came to UW with excitement about going to college not knowing anyone in the Greek system, had far lower chance. On Bid Day maybe as many as 25% of those that went through rush sat in their dorm room feeling sad about not being part of the system they wanted to join -- most willing to join just about any sorority. And, now they get to watch it from the sidelines and hope maybe that they will have better luck as a sophomore -- knowing that sorority recruitment favors freshman. That's the real story not whose house is in what tier.

“most willing to join just about any sorority.”

This isn’t true, though, and it’s the problem. Less than five percent of the girls who go through recruitment are dropped by every sorority. (It might be even lower than that.) The vast vast vast VAST majority of girls who don’t end up in a house have invitations left, but they drop because they think they’re too good for those chapters.

I feel absolutely terrible for the girls who get dropped altogether. It’s an awful feeling, and no one deserves it. But in most cases when girls go bidless, it’s not because the sororities were being too exclusive and not giving everyone a shot, it’s because the PNM was.

You are insane. Either compete or fail. Like it or not, society judges based on how you dress, act, communicate, and look. Greek life is no different. If you need emotional support, go see your shrink and complain you are not being supported by everyone else. Stop insisting that others have to empower you. Earn rewards by being the best. Greek life is the largest student organization, they do not have to accept everyone.

While a bit harsh, @crazy is actually correct. The reason social sororities and fraternities exist is for being social organizations - not honor societies, or charity work groups, or job networks - and while those are all ancillary aspects of the social GLO's, the main mission is for the social aspect. Membership is for life and by invitation at the discretion of the chapter. Membership selection is based on how well a chapter decides that someone fits within their particular group. The main considerations for membership in any chapter are, in no particular order: 1) any pre-existing personal connections to the group (good or bad); 2) how well a potential new member presents her/himself in conversation, behavior, attitude, and appearance; 3) what that person can bring to the organization, not what the organization can do for the person, ie would I want to see that person wearing my letters? And PNM's are also looking for the social organization and judging the organizations they are rushing using the exact same criteria in reverse. It is subjective on both sides, and not being invited back to a house, or deciding you don't want to go back to a house, is not a failure, it's just not a fit. It goes both ways.

You make good points but I think the real issue is numbers. With quota way up there likely isn’t room for all the PNMs if no one dropped. Maybe the rush formula relies on drops. Sounds like PNMs without (1) pre-existing personal connections are at a disadvantage since that’s most important. Whatever.

I guarantee you that all the sororities on campus would have been happy to take pledge classes of 100 if necessary and warranted. That said, it would have likely been difficult logistically, and would have likely resulted in the immediate proposal of colonizing another sorority next year. With pledge classes around 80, that still might happen anyway.

There is no such thing as not enough room in the sororities. A point that people are missing on this thread is the system must help maintain equity among the chapter memberships by supporting all sororities, not just the ones that seem so popular during rush. This has always been an integral part of being NPC sororities. RFM uses the statistical data from the past few years' recruitments to determine the releases for each house for fairness among all chapters, but not to limit the number of pnm's placed. If more pnm's go through recruitment and stay in the process, the overall new member classes and the house total sizes get larger and larger over time, until at some point the memberships really are too large so another sorority is brought on. The absolute ideal is that no one drops out and no one gets completely dropped, though it's never going to be exactly like that, but every house thriving, 90% and above of pnm's getting placed; that is a doable healthy sorority system. If panhellenic thinks that there are too many cuts or that the system is unhealthy in any way, they can always re-examine the numbers and make adjustments to the RFM process.

Depending upon the university it appears that somewhere between 10 and 50% of girls are either dropping out of rush due to not being comfortable with the remaining one or two houses they have left or being dropped from rush. I think that's higher than girls realize when they start the process. This can be a pretty big blow one week into school for anyone. And, perhaps hard for those that came to a school where they didn't know anyone or have a network of friends from their high school, sports, etc. to help one get into a sororities. It seems like the system favors those who have connections with friends in houses. I think the odds are there are a lot of great girls without connections that didn't get houses and probably are even less likely to get houses as sophomores. The system feels exclusive rather than inclusive.

This is literally how it’s been for at least the last ten years. My older sister graduated in 2017 and she said cuts were even worse then because there was one less house. She knew girls who ended up being really involved on campus get dropped completely before pref and even a few that got released on bid day. Even now it’s really sad to see so many girls drop or be really heartbroken because they only have one or two options and they know that one of those options might not be “home” for a variety of reasons. I think it might be time to add another sorority or two because there’s definitely the demand there - or raise chapter total and alter RFM because the system here is broken and has been for years.

Panhel has those statistics but they won’t publish them.

What you’re describing is basically how the old system used to work—before RFM, there were way fewer rules about how many girls you could invite back to each round. (RFM forces stronger chapters to cut heavily earlier.) So stronger chapters would basically carry their backup girls all the way through rush and cut them right before pref. This meant girls would get invited back to more houses early during recruitment, but it also meant:

- more girls would get dropped from ALL their remaining chapters right before pref
- more girls would spend all week falling in love with a strong chapter that was realistically never going to take them, then be devastated when they only got weak chapters back on pref night, and they’d drop
- because so many girls dropped on pref night after quota was set, quota was artificially high and a lot of the weaker chapters would consistently miss it. This led to big differences in chapter size, and weak chapters were more likely to close because they couldn’t sustain numbers.

Now the cuts happen earlier. And they can be really harsh! But the idea behind them is that these are girls that are going to get cut at some point anyway, and it’s better for them to get cut early so that they have time to figure out if the chapters they have left might still be a good fit or not, and not get their heart set on a chapter where they have no shot. And overall I’m pretty sure fewer girls are dropping out, so it’s working even though it often sucks when you’re going through it.

Many of those PNMs were dropped entirely or had one house left after first or second round. I think majority were willing to give all the houses a chance.

Can you really find your fit and see yourself in a house after just one short visit in round 1?? Perhaps you should consider young women that get dropped from virtually all houses after one short visit may be dropping out because they are following your apparently shallow advise to “follow your heart” and you will “know where you belong”. Without options they may really just not be feeling a connection —- yet 9 houses dropped them before they could even possibly begin to feel a connection. The rush rhetoric over promises and under delivers. Your cavalier comment that it is not a sign-up sheet is part of the problem.

Please explain how these girls who dropped out would have gotten bids when quota was 76? Would sororities have been willing to have pledge classes of 125? I think not.

See comment below.

Given the high numbers of girls that sign up for rush and the registration fee... by my calculations that’s around $75,000 that goes to the Panhellenic organization......UW Madison is Public university and I’d really like to see how that money is being spent, it’s a substantial amount.

Do you know how many PNM went through recruitment? Did all sororities make their quota?

Quota was 76, have only have heard a few results, but:

DG-83
SDT-71
KKG-77
GPhiB-80
AXO-80

Anybody have any other results?

Also, every year the overwhelming majority of PNM's who don't get bids are the ones who had houses left and decided to drop from recruitment, not because they were cut from all houses. The sororities do the choosing, it is a numbers game, and getting cut doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you (or your daughter because there are a lot of outraged mammas on here). It is not and never has been a sign-up sheet.

The "cuts that are going to happen anyway" approach is quite cavalier. How can a chapter size up a PNM in 15 minutes during first round? A lot of high quality PNM's don't stand a chance with this approach. Google Fast Company - why your first impression of someone else is often wrong.

Angry Mom, there is nothing "cavalier" about the selection process. There is a lot of work that goes into membership selection that non-members never see or understand. The sororities put in an enormous amount of time over the late summer and fall into poring over recruitment applications and trying to learn something about each and every PNM who will walk through their doors, even to the point that they can recognize them and pair each of them with an active they have something in common with. But the very first thing that is reviewed is GPA, which is how the vast amounts of the first round cuts are made. Yes, these girls were going to be cut anyway on this alone because each house has a GPA requirement, and unless a PNM has something else super special and desirable about them that makes up for their GPA, they are the first to go. It doesn't mean that their GPA's are necessarily bad, it's just that sorority recruitment, at any school, is a far more competitive pool than in high school. With so very many girls going through, everyone has a high GPA, everyone was student body president, everyone was a cheerleader, everyone was captain of the team, everyone etc. Even legacies don't get much of an extra shot nowadays and get cut all the time. We get it, your daughter is high quality, but so is every other girl. But if she still had a house or two left before pref and she decided to drop, then right back at you - how did she size up an entire house full of women, who clearly wanted her back, and decide she couldn't make a connection with anyone in that whole house? There are many, many PNM's who do give those sororities a chance and end up falling in love with their houses, but people don't want to hear those stories, especially on here. Once again, if all those high quality girls who decided to drop would have stayed the course and joined where they were invited, they could have populated some high quality new member classes and found an amazing home that they weren't initially expecting - happens more often then not.

Your GPA comments don't add up based on PNMs I know. Either way if there is a GPA requirement that is primary cause of PNM's getting cut after 1st rounds, why don't the sororities be transparent and publish the information rather than funding rush with money from PNMs who will get cut anyway?

UWM panhellenic could do a much better job of providing information for PNM's to understand the process and set their expectations on the entire process, including GPA zones for success. However, it helps nothing to make assumptions about anyone's recruitment experience based on hearsay and limited information. Did you review the transcripts, resumes, legacy forms, letters of recommendation, and personal connections of all the PNM's who went through? The sororities did. Are you privy to the return rates and RFM numbers for each sorority at each round? Only each house knows their own numbers. Do you know how many and which houses each and every PNM had on her schedule every day? The computer knows all. But here's a hard fact for you: An average of around 5% of PNM's get dropped from all houses. The rest of them have invitations back and can keep going if they choose to. The vast majority of PNM's without bids drop out by choice. It is too bad for them and too bad for the sororities full of wonderful women who were ready to welcome them.

yeah girls that had like legacies at wisco houses didnt get invited back....i feel like thats not normal?

Each sorority has its own national rules regarding legacies. It’s not a Wisco Panhell thing. Every sorority handles legacies differently, but it’s 2019 and not the 1950s. No house can realistically take 50 legacies during recruitment. Almost every girl is a legacy to some house. It’s just not possible to take every legacy anymore. It’s very normal for legacies to be dropped these days. Most houses I know automatically invite them to 2nd and 3rd rounds to get to know them better. They have to have been recognized as a true legacy (mom, sister, aunt) prior to recruitment by the actual family member contacting and recommending a legacy to the chapter. Legacies aren’t recognized as “official” just by writing it on their recruitment form.

lmao i know a girl with a sister in a sorority here that didnt get invited back to 2nd rounds at whatever house. obvi idk the policy at each house or anything......

a lot of sororities used to be required by their nationals to invite legacies back to the second round. but now nationals are dropping that rule because there are way more legacies going through, too many to realistically invite.

My friend is a freshman. She had a full schedule every round, and preffed at two “top” houses. Pi Phi is the only house that dropped her and it was 1st round.

Also for the person wondering about 1st round drops— the more people who rush the more drops are made with RFM. Check out the stats at Southern schools like Bama and UT. CraaaaZzzy but part of it is girls who drop bc they come in having their hearts set on ABC or XYZ. If girls “maximize their options” with an open mind they will usually find a home.

the sororities set their own cutoffs, and they’re mostly between 2.7 and 3.0 for upperclassmen, mostly 3.0 for freshmen (maybe a few are a little higher).

i don’t think the poster who’s talking about grade cuts actually goes here (she calls it uwm at one point, which nobody does). very few freshmen are cut for not meeting the gpa minimum, because nearly everyone who gets into this school meets the gpa minimum. sometimes sophs/juniors don’t meet it, but not many. (a few houses do care more about grades than others, and having the minimum might not be enough for them. but most houses don’t care as long as you hit the minimum.)

I agree with you about the poster. I don't think freshman PNM's are getting cut for grades. PNM was above average for UW in all aspects grades/ leadership/ sports, etc. Attractive/well dressed (although I hate to even note that as it shouldn't be relevant). Had recommendations. PNM was invited to one house for 3rd round. This house has a religious legacy which she respects, but was not comfortable joining. So she effectively was released. PNM didn't know anyone in the greek system and couldn't overcome that in 15 minutes against the other PNMs who knew a few or even dozens in the greek system through school/ sports/camps, etc. This has been an issue for other PNMs in her same situation for years at UW and other large state schools.